Frontline Ministries of Wisconsin

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Below is a transcript of my phone conversation with Dennis Dorn on July 14, 2008. You can read my letter to the pastors here, and the letter to Dennis Dorn here.

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CC: Charles Charpentier

DD: Dennis Dorn

"Planned Parenthood" sometimes shortened to PP. Words in brackets [ ] mine.

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DD: Good morning. Dennis Dorn, can I help you.

CC: Hey Dennis, my name's Charlie. I'm with Frontline Ministries and I understand that Planned Parenthood is renting a place from you . . . in Portage?

DD: Yes, that's correct.

CC: You understand that PP is the country's foremost abortion provider?

DD: They do not do abortions or any medical procedures in that building, it's in their lease, prohibits anything.

CC: Yeah, I understand

DD: That's it. That's . . . I'm just telling you that, and I can tell you that, um, I'm Roman Catholic, I don't believe in abortion personally...

CC: Right.

DD: ...um, so, I can tell you that, but that's kind of where it is.

CC: Well, Dennis, do you understand that...

DD: uh, I understand a great deal about it. It's not anything I feel comfortable discussing with somebody who calls me on the phone.

CC: Ah, they refer abortions down to Madison from that office [from the Portage PP office].

DD: You know, they are legal in this country. It's not something that I . . . I think that I . . . I profess, it's not something I believe in, but it is, unfortunately, a legal procedure in this country.

CC: But when something is legal it doesn't... [I was going to say "it doesn't make it right in God's eyes."]

DD: [interrupting] I am not about to debate that topic with you. I don't believe in abortion personally . . . that . . . we have a lease that restricts them from doing any kind of medical procedures . . . that's about, about it.

CC: Well, I'd just like to say one thing, I mean, they refer these abortions, and... [cut off again]

DD: [interrupting] I, if you can, uh, er, is there anything other than, I mean, what is the crux of your call? I'm not being rude, I just want to know what it is. What are you asking from me?

CC: Well, I'm, I'm asking that, that, uh, that you cease renting to Planned Parenthood...

DD: [interrupting] It is not going to happen. It is not going to happen. It is not . . . not, I'm not, I'm not . . . going to do that, and I'm not going to be bullied into it. I think that there's young people who need to discuss, up to the point of abortion, their options. Um...

CC: Well, even the Catholic Church holds that, uh, um, you know, that contraception is [causes] an abortion.

DD: [jumping in, in the middle of my last sentence] If you're going to continue to, I'm sorry, Charlie, I'm just not going to carry on this conversation with you. I, I don't think it's appropriate, um, I'm not going to end our lease with them, based on your phone call...

CC: You said, "...if someone calls out of the blue." What if we were to meet in person?

DD: Not gonna happen.

CC: OK, um, then, here's what we have planned. We have a boycott planned of Portage Lumber, and...

DD: Portage Lumber doesn't own that property.

CC: I understand, but, but...

DD: Then, you and I are done. You and I are...

CC: Well let me . . . let me...

DD: No, we're done. You're done.

CC: All right, you own...

DD: You already said to me...

CC: ...Dorn Properties...

DD: ...you threatened me...

CC: I'm not threatening you, I'm...

DD: Yes you are.

CC: I'm trying to tell you...

DD: You can tell me whatever you want, just so you know that the people who own Portage Lumber Company are not the people who own, um, that building [204 E. Edgewater, Portage, where PP rents space]. They're not the same, and if that's your . . . I mean, it's...

CC: You own Portage Lumber.

DD: Not I don't own it.

CC: It's a corporation.

DD: It's a corporation. I do not exclusively own Portage Lumber.

CC: No, but you are, ah, the address for Dorn Properties, which owns the PP building, goes to Portage Lumber [or, is the same as Portage Lumber].

DD: It goes to the same post office box. Yes, it does. My office is here.

CC: Your office, and you have control of what goes on at Portage Lumber and you control what goes on at that office building...

DD: I'm an employee of Portage Lumber's.

CC: I know how that works. I know how it works, and you're an officer [of the Portage Lumber corporation].

DD: If you feel comfortable with calling me on the phone and calling me a liar, I can't believe that this, somehow (laughs) y'know, anyway...

CC: Dennis, the [Catholic] catechism in 2272 says that "formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense, and the church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life." And I believe that you are in formal cooperation with abortion.

DD: I can, I can appreciate...

CC: They refer . . . they refer abortions from that property that you rent to them, and you're doing it willingly and knowingly, and you're complicit in murder, OK? I believe that.

DD: And you're absolutely entitled to that belief, and I respect you for believing it.

CC: Ah, no you don't. Ah...

DD: I do, I just don't agree with you. One of my closest friends growing up is a very liberal democrat. I don't agree with him, on, the fact I would say that he is more liberal than that, I don't agree with him on the vast majority of political things. We are great friends, and I respect him, but we differ.

CC: You know, Planned Parenthood is giving out condoms to kids so that they can have sex, and you know, that's not right. It's like, it's against God. And just because it's legal in this country doesn't make it OK with God. Do you care about what God cares about?

DD: You know, I appreciate the phone call that you are making...

CC: You know, it was legal to kill Jews during the holocaust, too.

DD: How dare you make that accusation. [What accusation? Is he feeling guilty?]

CC: Well, you're the one who said it was legal [to kill unborn babies].

DD: How dare you . . . see, that is why . . . um, I know [name withheld], a couple of, well, ten years ago, found out when she was forty that she was pregnant, and the doctors talked to her about abortion because it was such a late-term, um, not a late-term, but it was a late pregnancy in her life. And you know what she did? She and her husband sat down and said, "OK, what kind of names can we choose if our child is Down's Syndrome, because we want it to be simple, and, [deleted so as not to identify the woman]. So, and she is absolutely . . . she saw either your group or a group like yours, with anti-abortion signs out that were so graphic, and she said to me, "You know," she said, "I personally," she said, not stood up and preached about it, "personally my husband and I made the decisions." And it so happened that their child was born, it didn't have any birth defects being born. But they went through the pregnancy and there wasn't an option [probably meaning that they did not consider abortion an option], but they were so offended by the tactics of your organization, or organizations like yours, that she said, "I will never give them a moment of my time or a penny of my money." Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do what you need to do, that is your privilege, that is your belief, and, um, for that, for your commitment, I respect you, but I don't agree with you on it. So, that's where we stand. As I said, you've already called me a liar today, and threatened me, so I don't know how excited I should be about continuing on the phone.

CC: OK, well, I understand your position now, and, but, you know, like you say, we definitely disagree...

DD: We do.

CC: Yeah, um, you know, Planned Parenthood is the largest provider of preborn baby murders, and you're going ahead and saying, "Here, go ahead and you can use my building and you can, ah, refer abortions down to Madison, you can tell girls to go down to Madison and have their babies killed, ah, you can give out contraception," and contraception kills babies, it kills the egg...

DD: Not all forms of contraception do that.

CC: Well, not, not...

DD: ...so you don't know what, either you don't know what you're talking about or you're telling half-truths.

CC: ...not condoms. Not condoms, but the pill, which is what most girls are on, is the thing that actually...

DD: That's not what you said, you said contraceptives.

CC: Well, you know, I'm, I'm clarifying...

DD: [unintelligible]

CC: No, I'm clarifying now, OK, I said, yeah, I understand that a condom doesn't kill an unborn baby, but conception is where life starts, and life . . . anyone that's already conceived has the same rights as an adult. You know, we are endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that's right in our constitution, and, you know, PP doesn't care about unborn children at all, and to have anything to do with that is to be, really, complicit in the whole, in their whole plan. And you know, Planned Parenthood itself...

DD: Uh, here's a question that my more liberal friends ask me. How many children have you adopted?

CC: OK...

DD: How many children have you adopted?

CC: OK...

DD: I mean, I think that's a legit . . . I, I have . . . I mean, my wife and I have adopted none. We don't have adopted children, but, when I can see the number of children that are born out of wedlock, that are born into the worst of circumstances, who have parents who leave them unfed, unclothed, uneducated, um, I think that is not an argument for abortion. It is in my mind an argument for birth control. And so, you know, I . . . that's where I personally draw the line in my life, but, you know, I feel somewhat awkward about having that discussion with, at this juncture, with a complete stranger. Anyway, as I said, I respect that fact that you have a personal difference with me, as I said also to you, I feel a little uncomfortable with the fact that you've called me a liar this morning, and so, that's adequate for our conversation.

CC: At what point did I call you a liar?

DD: I told you about who . . . the ownerships of our business . . . these businesses being different and you basically told me I was lying. [notice how he changed "our" to "these"]

CC: Well, I believe you're an officer of that corporation.

DD: I am an officer of this corporation.

CC: OK, so well that's, you know, I understand that a corporation is a legal entity created by the state...

DD: Do you believe that that means that I own it all and that I'm autonomous here?

CC: No, but...

DD: Well, that's what I'm trying to explain to you; that I'm not.

CC: You know, when someone does a boycott, they try to hurt whatever . . . you know, and it might hurt other people around, too.

DD: OK, so that what you've, as I said, you've already called me a liar and you've threatened me today. I think that's an adequate fifteen minutes out of my day, and I'm . . . hope it feels positive . . . I have no idea . . . you know, I, as I said, I'm a Roman Catholic and I'm Christian and, uh, I don't believe that the, um, that a number of things as our traditions have always been the right things to do.

CC: OK. All right. So if the Catholic Church takes a stand against contraception itself, you may not necessarily agree with that?

DD: No, and I didn't agree with a number of the things that my church has done over 2000 years.

CC: OK. I get it. Yeah, yeah. OK. Well, that makes sense. [because he won't listen to reason]

DD: You know, I mean, it's just, ah, I believe... Well. I've said enough. As I said, I don't choose to debate with you this morning, and you're entirly welcome to your decision, obviously.

CC: All right. All right, thanks for talking.

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Whether abortion is "legal" or not, the unborn have a God-given right to life. It's not enough to be "personally" pro-life; All persons should be legally protected—from conception until death. Mr. Dorn is helping Planned Parenthood murder children.

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